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                <text>Please browse the more than 8000 knit- and crochet-related treasures in the CKC Collections Resource &lt;a href="http://digital.centerforknitandcrochet.org/collections/show/1"&gt;Museum and Library Collections&lt;/a&gt; (drawn from &lt;a href="https://dp.la/info/developers/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"&gt;Digital Public Library of America&lt;/a&gt;). CKC is seeking new partner organizations to share their collections of knitting and crochet with visitors to this resource. Contact us at &lt;a href="mailto:collections@centerforknitandcrochet.org"&gt;collections@centerforknitandcrochet.org&lt;/a&gt; for more information about participating. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/11Hb_Y75HnhkCE5i4mKpcTlB8Msp_lB0XUtQr5S8XXKA/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"&gt;Learn more about criteria for Share Your Treasures.&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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              <text>April 20, 2007</text>
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              <text>Oral History Interview with Gloria Carter</text>
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              <text>In early 2007 the Plainfield Public Library was asked to host two days of oral-history interviews, conducted by StoryCorps. As part of StoryCorps� Griot project, a Plainfield historian arranged to capture the stories of African-Americans in Union County. Our library received copies of the 17 Plainfield interviews, which it later transcribed through funding from a Union County History Grant.</text>
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              <text>Gloria Carter NEUBERGER: My name is Leonore Neuberger. I’m 72 years old. Today’s date is April 20, 2007 and I’m in the Plainfield, New Jersey Public Library. I’m here to interview my friend Gloria Carter. CARTER: I’m Gloria Carter. I am 80 years old today, but in another few days I’ll be 81. Today is April 20, 2007 and I’m in the Plainfield Public Library in Plainfield, New Jersey and my partner today is Leonore, my very dear friend. NEUBERGER: Gloria, you’ve told me so many wonderful stories about your years growing up in Washington and I wonder if you could share them now. CARTER: Oh I’d be glad to. I lived in a very closely knit neighborhood. It was a one-block street in the middle of the block. The man who had been responsible for developing that block had built that house for himself. So we were very happy to say that we had one more room than everybody else because we had a back parlor. This was a large three-story house, brick, joining houses on both sides as it was a neighborhood similar like the houses in most of New York City and we had 14 feet ceilings, large living room, a back parlor, three workable fireplaces, dining room, kitchen and six bedrooms but only one bathroom. Now my grandfather and grandmother had bought that house and they had 11 children. So the six bedrooms were needed, but they also needed more bathrooms, which they didn’t have. The family used to line up sometimes for our biweekly bath. We had a great time growing up because we enjoyed the simple pleasures. One of my earliest memories of my grandmother and which is the only memory I have really of her is that she’d always grab me when there was a storm and put me on her lap and rock and she’d shut the windows and the doors and pull the curtains down because she thought everyone should be quiet while “the Lord is doing his work.” So that’s my biggest memory of my grandmother, really. My grandfather, who still lived in the house after his wife died, was a paper hanger and a painter and a minister. He had gone to Howard University and gotten a degree in religion but he never practiced, but he wrote beautiful sermons, which he shared with other ministers. On Saturdays we would eagerly await his return home from his job because he’d always bring us freshly baked buns from the nearby bakery. That was something that we really looked forward to. We always centered most of our pleasures around things that we did as a family. On Sundays we would listen to the radio together. We would play games. While we were not rich -- actually we weren’t even fairly well to do because I was a child of the depression and we had real simple pleasures like a big trip would be to go down to the Potomac River and watch the boats go by or we would go to the airport and watch the planes come in or we’d go window shopping and say, “If I had a lot of money, that’s what I would buy.” So we had a lot of really nice things that we did together. My mother was a very hard working woman and she contributed to the family’s income because she really worked two jobs. She was employed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing where she made money, literally. One of the funny things that I’ve told you before, Leonore, about my mother making money was when she came to visit me, she and I went shopping and she had just come from her job up here and she had been paid in cash. Actually the Bureau of Engraving and Printing was one of the only government agencies who paid their employees in cash, not by check. She came up with her new money and we went to the department store here, Tepper’s, and she bought a pair of shoes and the lady there who waited on us said, “This looks like you just made it.” My mother said, “I probably did!” And this really threw the lady for a loop, but she worked there and then she also was a beautician and she had her shop in our basement. So when she wasn’t working in the government she was working at home. So therefore, my mother didn’t have many household responsibilities because she didn’t have time. I was the only child and my mother did have, while she didn’t have any other child, she had a twin sister and the twin sister took over some of the roles that mothers usually do for me. She’d go to school when we had programs where the parents were invited to the school. She would punish me if she thought I needed punishment and she was the one in the family who really pushed more for education than anybody else. If I got home from school and I got a B on my paper, the question was, “Why wasn’t it an A?” If I didn’t perform in anyway the way she thought I should, I got punished for it and my mother actually relegated that responsibility to her, which sometimes I resent it and misconstrued my mother’s motives. Actually, my mother spent so much time and energy working so that I could have the education that she didn’t have that she delegated some mothering chores to her twin sister. There was never a question about education. That was pushed in my family. My grandfather had gone to Howard University. His brother had gone there and had gotten a degree in dentistry. His daughter, my mother’s first cousin, had gone and had gotten a degree in medicine and my mother and father finished high school, but they did not further their education formally, but my father read all the time and my father was a very capable man. He could do many things and he got a job when he was very young as a messenger in the Department of Agriculture and then was promoted to becoming a chauffeur for the Secretary of Agriculture. Finally, he became “the unofficial director of protocol,” which means that when various people were invited to the Secretary of Agriculture’s office to a meeting or something, my father would arrange the seating because he knew how his boss was thinking about where the people should be sitting. Also my father had to carry a gun, which scared me to death, but in those days when he was a chauffeur, they used to go on long trips. People were not flying the way they are today and he was like a bodyguard for the Secretary of Agriculture. So he had to carry a gun. I hated that gun and to this day I still hate guns because it used to frighten me. I used to think something would happen. The neighborhood I lived in, when I said it was very close, I mean it was very close. We never locked doors. You just go over to a neighbor’s house and tap on the door and open it and say, “Yoo hoo,” and give your name and the person would say either, “Come in,” or, “I’m busy,” or something but you never bothered to wait for them to answer the door. One lady who lived in our block went to Canada and for us that was such a big thing that the whole neighborhood gave her a big going away party. That same lady played a very interesting role in my life in another way. One day my mother was upstairs taking a bath. The doorbell rang, I answered the door and there were these two large, very important looking men who asked if my mother was home and they sounded so formal they scared me to death and then they identified themselves as being from the FBI and I was about eight years old and I wondered why the FBI was after my mother. I was so frightened and finally, after my mother came down and spoke to them, it turned out that these two men had come to interview my mother as a reference for the lady who had gone to Canada because she was applying for a job at the Federal Bureau of Investigation and they wanted to use my mother as a reference, but for some reason that incident stands out in my mind. When anything happened to any of the children in the neighborhood, good or bad, the whole neighborhood knew it. If you had misbehaved in school, if you had been seen taking your stockings down -- that sounds funny to you, I’m sure, but in those days we had to wear long stockings to school in the winter time and all of the girls hated to do it and so when we got around the corner from school we’d roll our stockings down so they look like socks and then before we got home we rolled them back up. But if anybody saw us do that in the street our mothers knew it before we got home and we got it. FACILITATOR: Were they uncomfortable? CARTER: No, they were ugly. They were thick and they had stripes or something and nobody wanted to wear those stockings. They looked like stockings that you see children wearing in orphanages. NEUBERGER: Were you in a school uniform? CARTER: No, we didn’t wear uniforms and by the time we got into high school, we were more fashionable and things had changed. Now the schools in Washington were segregated. There were black schools and white schools. There was also an unwritten rule of how segregation was promoted in Washington. We could ride on buses. We could sit anywhere we wanted to sit; however, where most prejudice was practiced was in the department stores and jobs and in theaters, places of amusement and restaurants. There were white restaurants and there were black restaurants. There were white theaters and there were black theaters. There were stores that you could go in and you could buy but you couldn’t try on anything. There were some stores that you could go in and you could try on a dress, but not a hat or there were some stores that you would go in and you would be totally ignored. Now these signs were never put up that’s this is what’s practiced here, but through living the life and knowing what these things were through word of mouth, people kind of knew where to shop and where not to shop and where they’d be welcomed and where they had to stay out. This was a very subtle thing and a very hurting thing and I don’t think many of us realized how we were being ignored as a human being as we were. So as we got older, we began to be more aware of it. Fortunately, I had the experience of having a friendship with a physician who was taking care of me. When I was 18 years old and had just started college, they had a city-wide x-ray survey and I was found to have tuberculosis. I was hospitalized for 18 months in a segregated hospital. There were two wings. There was the white side and the black side. I was on the black side, but my physician was an Austrian. He was a wonderful person. He used to like to come and talk to me because we both liked classical music and we both liked to read and he used to spend time talking to me and he’d tell me about his life in Austria and how he was treated when he came to this country. He also suffered a kind of prejudice that a lot of other people don’t realize because he was white but was Austrian. He was treated in a very cruel way also. Anyway, he and I became very good friends and remained friends. One time, after I had been discharged from the hospital, he came to visit me and he wanted to take me out to lunch. So I was trying to think where could both of us be accepted? I took him to a restaurant that I thought we would be accepted and both of us were hurt because the people there thought that I was “hustling,” meaning that I had brought him there, that he was my man or something, but they did not realize that this was a friendship and so we left. I don’t think I ever told anybody that before. NEUBERGER: How old was he? CARTER: How old was I then? NEUBERGER: Yeah and how old was he? CARTER: He must have been in his early 30’s and I was about 19 years old at the time. NEUBERGER: So it could have been conceived as a romantic thing. CARTER: Yeah, it was. NEUBERGER: And neither a black or a white restaurant -- CARTER: Would accept it. NEUBERGER: Would accept you. CARTER: Exactly. Well what happened was we went back to my house and my aunt fixed lunch for us. FACILITATOR: [inaudible] CARTER: At the restaurant people looked down at us in a very disgruntled way, made remarks; just made snide remarks so we just got up and left. The other things that happened of interest to me were I think my relationship with him was my first friendly relationship with a person of another race. I also had something strange happen -- well it isn’t strange. It’s something that happened because of circumstances. I had started out going to a teacher’s college because I wanted to be a teacher, but while I was in the hospital it seemed that a lot of people there used to come to me to discuss their problems and I began to become interested in counseling. So when I got out of the hospital I did not go back to the teacher’s college. I went to Howard University where I decided that I would major in psychology and then I got a master’s degree in social work. NEUBERGER: So that’s how you came about your career. CARTER: Yeah, that’s how I got into social work. NEUBERGER: So it was a fortunate illness. CARTER: Yeah you could call it that. NEUBERGER: Are you still friends with this doctor? CARTER: No, he died. He got married. I met his wife. She was a lovely lady. She was a psychologist by the way and I have a picture of him. I’ll show it to you some day. NEUBERGER: Good. CARTER: He was also an artist. I have one of his paintings. NEUBERGER: Gloria, was the prejudice against him only because he was from Austria or was he Jewish? CARTER: Yeah he was Jewish. NEUBERGER: Oh, you didn’t mention that. So he was a foreigner and he was Jewish. So on those two bases he was. CARTER: Yeah but I don’t think that the people in the restaurant, they didn’t know what his religion was. When I got into the school of social work, I thought I wanted to be a medical social worker and I was. I did become one. I got my master’s degree in social work. Also in the school of social work I got my husband. He was a student there who also happened to live on the same street that I lived on because the house that he lived in was a house where the couple who owned it would rent rooms to students in graduate school. So I would conveniently come out of my yard at the same time I heard his gate open so that he would have to walk to school with me. That’s how we got to be friends. NEUBERGER: So you lived within walking distance of Howard University? CARTER: Yes. NEUBERGER: Oh. CARTER: But I used to be a great walker. I used to walk to the library several times a week and the library was quite a distance from where I lived, the public library I mean. I used to walk to the zoo. NEUBERGER: That’s miles, isn’t it? CARTER: Yeah, a few miles. That was another thing that we used to do as children for fun. We’d go to the zoo. We used to love to watch the animals. I still enjoy going to the zoo. NEUBERGER: Didn’t you once tell me that there was a special day at the Washington Zoo for people of color? CARTER: No that we could only go to the zoo on certain days? NEUBERGER: I don’t know that there was some special occasion once a year. CARTER: I didn’t tell you. I don’t remember anything like that. NEUBERGER: Maybe I heard it from someone else. CARTER: Yeah, I used to like to walk. I didn’t play tennis and I didn’t do much of anything else. Walking was my major -- NEUBERGER: OK, so let’s hear about Herman. CARTER: My husband, Herman. Herman is a very kind person. He does things that people never know about. He’s helped people get through college and nobody ever knew about it. Now everybody’s going to know if they hear this, but he’s good. He likes to cook. He likes to fish. He loves to read. He reads constantly. He reads too much. I think there are other things he can be doing, although I admire his reading, but sometimes I wish he’d help me do some other things when he’s reading. We have one daughter, Susan. Susan is a lovely girl. She’s not a girl anymore. I forget that Susan is now 54 years old and I got married in Washington and moved to Plainfield. She got married in Plainfield and moved to Washington and she’s divorced now. She has one daughter, Amy, who’s now 25 years old and Amy is very interested in she wants to become a nursery school director and she changed her mind midcourse because I don’t know what she wanted to be at first. I don’t think she knew herself, but she was only going to try for an associate arts degree and has now decided she wants to get the baccalaureate degree and then go on and get a master’s degree. So I think she’ll be in school for a long, long time. NEUBERGER: But that’s a wonderful goal. CARTER: Yeah, but she’s a very practical person, more practical than her mother or I am and she also is very talented with mechanical things. I can’t operate my computer like she can. When I can’t set my watch, she can, but she does those things very well and very naturally and she’s also a very friendly person. NEUBERGER: But go back to how you first met Herman. You said that you would wait and listen for him so you could walk to school together? CARTER: Yeah, hear his gate shut and then I’d walk down so that by the time he got to my yard I’d just be coming out of my gate and then we would have to walk to school together. NEUBERGER: And you could act surprised and say, “Oh Herman!” CARTER: Oh there you are. The one thing that really brought us really close together, besides just being classmates from school, is that both of us like jazz and I had some Billie Holliday records that he wanted to hear. So he came to see me so he could hear the Billie Holliday records because they didn’t have a record player -- we call them in those days -- in the house where he lived. So he’s come and listen to the Billie Holliday records and then he had to write a thesis and he was looking for someone to type it for him and so I volunteered. So that brought us even closer together. We both got our degrees in social work from Howard. He finished school before I did and he moved back to New Jersey while I finished up my one year in school. He got a job working at Greystone Park State Hospital and worked up to become the director of social service there. Then transferred from there over to hospital in Newark, which is now the city hospital. NEUBERGER: UMDNJ? CARTER: UMDNJ, right. That’s what it is now. In those days it had another name. When I graduated I had a commitment to work in a medical setting because I had gotten a scholarship which required my working in the medical setting for one year and I worked at Bellevue Hospital in New York for a year in social service. The trip over there was horrendous. I went by car to the train station. I went from the train to Jersey City. Then I got on the ferry, then I went over to Liberty Street and got on the subway up to 23rd Street and then on the cross-town bus on 23rd Street over to 1st Avenue and then went up 1st Avenue a few blocks to get to my office. It would take me almost two hours to get to work every day and if I missed one connection coming home, I wouldn’t get home until eight o’clock at night sometimes and it got to be such a drag on me. So I decided I would have to stop working that. It was really wearing me down. So while I wasn’t working, that’s when we decided that if we wanted to start a family, we should and that’s what we did. So Susan was born and actually she was due on Valentine’s Day, but she was born on New Year’s Eve at ten minutes to midnight New Year’s Eve and everybody was saying why don’t you try to have the first baby of the year. I said, “No, thank you. I want to get out of here.” So she was born just before the first of the year, 1953. She was born in 1952. I didn’t work for awhile and then when I did go back to work I started working at Muhlenberg Hospital in Plainfield and I only worked part time and I had been there a couple of years and the director of social service resigned to take another job and I was eventually promoted to her job, but this took a lot of doing because the hospital, in those days, was not really so liberal in placing people in professional positions at the hospital. It got better and to the point that -- this is really a joke. The Encyclopedia Americana, they put down that one of the outstanding events of the year was that I got the promotion to director of social service at Muhlenberg Hospital. NEUBERGER: Were you the person of color in the department? CARTER: I was the only person there, so they only had a one-woman department in those days, except for the secretary, who was with me. That department grew and grew and then through the war and poverty and around that time there’s been many changes in hospitals and whatnot because there was a lot of emphasis put on social aspects of illness and most nursing homes and hospitals had social service departments that got much larger. Now the emphasis is again away from that and on financial things. So the social service workers and hospitals do not, in many cases, enjoy practicing what they were trained to do because the emphasis is on bringing in the money. NEUBERGER: Well in your position, were you doing counseling? CARTER: I was doing counseling. One of the things that I had to do, for example, was there was a patient in the hospital who needed to go to a mental hospital and her husband was refusing to sign papers for her to go and I was able to help him to relieve his guilt about doing it, that he was able to have her committed, to arrange for her commitment. That’s what I tried to demonstrate to the hospital that we’re not there just to help people get financial help or refer them to buy prostheses or something like that that they need, but we can help them with social and emotional problems that are handicapping them in terms of getting the right treatment for whoever they’re responsible for. NEUBERGER: How long did you stay at Muhlenberg? CARTER: I was at Muhlenberg from 1954 to 1958. So that was four years. In 1958 I met Mary Hunt, who was at that time the director of social service at the United Family and Children’s Society, and Mary Hunt asked me if I would work for her and I told her that I’d have to think about it. Well I did. I loved the job and I stayed there 40 years until my retirement when I was 65 and I made many dear friends there and I also had my first experience in having a social relationship with people of different cultures and it was a very rewarding experience for me so that now many times I forget the color barrier because I have friends of all different groups. NEUBERGER: Of course this is going back, you told me there was a time when you were I think with some people from Muhlenberg, you had gone to an event at a country club? CARTER: Yes. NEUBERGER: Tell what happened then. I think that’s really interesting. CARTER: When Mary? NEUBERGER: When she said -- CARTER: Mary looked around and she said, “Gloria, I think you are the only colored person here.” And I said, “Mary I usually am the only colored person there.” So it was a good experience for me because it certainly broadened my horizon in terms of relating to people and I think it helped other people too because many of them had lived in somewhat isolation in terms of their relationship to people of other cultures and other backgrounds. NEUBERGER: I certainly feel like you’ve enriched my life through our friendship. CARTER: Well I feel the same way because I don’t think I ever think of you as being anything other than my dear friend. NEUBERGER: Same here. CARTER: And your whole family. I think I talk to you more than anybody else. I hope I don’t worry you too much on the telephone, but Leonore and I have had vacations together. Her children are my friends and my husband -- NEUBERGER: We had a wonderful time in Mexico. That was so sweet of you to invite us. CARTER: Yeah, they spent the week with us in Mexico, a place where we go every year, and we had a great time. NEUBERGER: Some day I’d like to be on one of those jazz cruises that you go on. They sound like so much fun. CARTER: They are a lot of fun, but they’re changing now because there was a time when The Norway was the only cruise ship that had those jazz cruises, but they turned out to be such a popular thing that there are more and more of them so that there isn’t the same closeness anymore because everybody who went would be on the same ship every year and we’d see the same people over and over again. It was like a reunion and now some go on this ship and some go on another ship. We just don’t get to see them anymore like we used to. Fortunately, this year I went to Arizona for a trip and I happened to visit with some friends we had met on the first jazz cruise we ever went on. We went to their house. NEUBERGER: When was that? What year was the first one? CARTER: Gad, who knows? It’s been maybe at least 18 years ago. NEUBERGER: Well 18 years ago, did you see any prejudice on the cruise ships? CARTER: Not that I was aware of. Well you know jazz, for a long time, was thought to be a black thing, a colored thing, and many people hadn’t been exposed to jazz in the same way that they are now. So there were mixed people on the ship. There were people of all kinds of backgrounds. NEUBERGER: Yeah I thought jazz sort of cut across color lines. CARTER: Then we started going to New Orleans every year to the Jazz and Heritage Festival and that was fun because not only did we hear good music and meet nice people, we ate a lot of good food. NEUBERGER: And what about all of the fantastic travels you’ve done for a little girl who never knew anyone who went further than Canada, you’ve been all over the world? CARTER: That’s right. I never thought I’d get off that street and because of my husband, he likes to travel. If you count each island as an independent country, we’ve been to at least 45. So we live a simple life. We’re kind of frugal, but we have a good time. Enjoy the simple pleasures; reading, theater. We like to go to the theater. I like to play bridge. My husband doesn’t, so he reads while I play bridge. That’s also why we became friendly, right? NEUBERGER: Right. Yeah we were bridge partners. Maybe you would like to, I was going to say talk about some of your trips, some unusual things that have happened to you. I can still see that picture of, was it a camel that spit at you? CARTER: The camel driver told me if I put a date between my teeth the camel would take it out of my mouth and so I, like a fool, put the date between my teeth and he put spit all over my face. It was a horrible experience. NEUBERGER: What country was this? CARTER: That was in Morocco. NEUBERGER: Well if I ever get there, I’ll remember not to feed the camels. CARTER: I told you when we went to Singapore I had breakfast with a rhinoceros -- not a rhinoceros -- with an orangutan. She came out with her baby and sat on this little stone beside me and her caretaker said, “Whatever you do, don’t act like you’re going to touch her baby because she will go bananas.” Well having told me that I was scared to breathe, but her name was Mary. Mary sat there and drank her juice and ate her fruit and watched me carefully while I was frozen on the stone, sitting there next to her. That was my experience with her. I’ve also eaten zebra meat. NEUBERGER: Oh but remember you told me about going into a temple where you had to take your shoes off and the response of this woman when she saw the shoes? CARTER: Oh yes. NEUBERGER: What country was that in? CARTER: That was in Thailand. We had to take our shoes off to go in the temple and I have very large feet for a woman and I’m very sensitive about the size of my feet and when I took my shoes off she picked up my shoes and said, “Very large shoes. Very large shoes,” and everybody turned around and I wanted to go through the floor. I’ve had some really crazy experiences, but in retrospect I wouldn’t have liked it any other way. It’s really been wonderful to travel. FACILITATOR: Sorry, I’m still laughing about the camel. CARTER: Everyone should have that experience, especially someone you don’t like. FACILITATOR: Was your whole face in the camel’s mouth? CARTER: Yeah, the camel, yes he covered my whole face with his mouth. NEUBERGER: And wasn’t that Herman’s suggestion that you do that? CARTER: Yes and oh he said, “Because I want to take a picture of it.” Then after it was all over, he said, “there wasn’t any film in the camera.” We never had no film of that horrible experience, but you do feel like you’re going to get sea sick on the camel when they walk. There is that swaying motion, but I think I would have been sick anyway after he spit in my face. But we’ve had some great trips, really wonderful. NEUBERGER: Well we went to China because you told us how wonderful that was and what was so nice was you told us with what respect the Chinese people -- CARTER: Yes that was amazing to me. The people in China, they really respect old age and I couldn’t walk as fast as the rest of the group and they’d always wait for me and gentlemen would always help me off the curb. They have another thing in China that I liked. At the big cross sections they have undergrounds so you don’t have to stay out in the street, waiting to be hit by a car. You can just go underground to cross the street and it makes it very easy. The people there were very, very nice. We had a wonderful time and for the first time I had a massage and I was expecting to pay this awful amount for it and I think I paid $2.00 for my massage. That was on the ship when we went down the Yangtze River and you take that little cruise down there. $2.00 for a massage. That’s really a bargain, isn’t it? NEUBERGER: Yes it is. It makes up for the airfare going there. CARTER: Yeah, that’s true. NEUBERGER: Gloria, those were wonderful stories. CARTER: Yeah I have a lot of pictures too and that’s one thing I really need to do is to work on putting those pictures together because when you get older, you want the pictures to go somewhere where they’ll be appreciated and right now they’re in such a mess because they’re all in different boxes and everything. I have a cousin who lives in Arizona and she’s coming to visit me soon and she’s going to help me work on the pictures getting them together. NEUBERGER: She’s a good organizer? CARTER: The best. Her house looks like a photo laboratory or something. She very artistically displays pictures of the family. She’ll have a screen and she’ll have this set up the twirling doors on it so you can turn them around so you can see the front and the back of the picture and she has them grouped nicely and that was my first trip to Arizona, just a few weeks ago, and I spent two weeks with her. I was shocked because I had no idea what Arizona was like and it’s a fascinating place. I’ve been on a lot of trips, but I couldn’t really say that I had more fun than what I had staying with her because she’s just such a lovely, fun person. She’s my husband’s cousin, but she and I are very close. In fact, I’ve always been a very family oriented person and get a lot of pleasure out of doing things with the family and it’s nice when your relatives don’t mind you’re visiting. I once went to visit someone and this person said to me -- and I was really set up for this -- “Visitors are like fish. After three days they begin to smell.” I said, “Well you won’t have to smell me because I’m leaving before three days,” but I’ve never felt that anybody wanted me to go because we’ve always had such fun together and then they reciprocate. They come to visit me and I hate to see them go. It’s good. END OF FILE</text>
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